ActivityForumsRandom DoodadsGeneral DiscussionA Place to 'Thunk'

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February 7, 2012 at 7:46 pm #50434
Avatar of Sydney
Sydney

In our school, we have these things called ‘thunks’.
They are mind-boggling little sentence puzzles that cause you to think, and where there is no actual answer to.
I don’t really know how else to explain it, so here are some examples:
*Is there more past or more future?
*If you want to fail and you succeed at failing, have you failed or succeeded?
*Is a broken down car parked?
*Is there more happiness or sadness in the world?

I find them quite interesting sometimes, so just thought there could be a place where we could share and discuss them :)
-DFTBA

Also, does anyone else have these in their schools?
What do you guys call them, because I’m pretty sure ‘thunk’ is not the proper word?

February 7, 2012 at 8:18 pm #50439
Avatar of Trevor Lucier
Trevor Lucier

these are AWESOME. :D

Here’s my take:

1. There is more past than future.
a. The future is not a definite thing. It isn’t tangible in any way, and can only be speculated on.
b. the past is a definite thing. It has already happened and can/has been recorded.

2. You have both failed and succeeded. The two are not mutually exclusive. Haven’t we all had times where a certain aspect of our plans worked but others didn’t?

3. A broken down car is parked if it’s in park…. obviously if it’s in neutral then it’s not parked. you can still put on the emergency brake and work the gear shift if the car is broken down.

4. I have no idea, but I hope there’s more happiness.

February 7, 2012 at 9:14 pm #50453
Avatar of Will
Will

I would just like to talk about the first one -

Trevor, since you said that you don’t believe the future is a tangible thing, that it’s just speculation, does that mean you don’t believe time travel is possible? I think the future is a tangible thing that exists already, but we just haven’t gotten there yet.

February 7, 2012 at 9:23 pm #50458
Avatar of Trevor Lucier
Trevor Lucier

While you would be hard pressed to find a person alive who loves doctor who more than I, I do not believe in time travel as an actual physical thing that is possible in this non-fictional universe. (though I wish that it did every day)
I disagree whole-heartedly that the future “exists” as anything other than an abstract concept.

the past existed.
the present exists.
the future will exist.

(these are of course, just my opinions.)

February 8, 2012 at 11:54 am #50874
Avatar of Sydney
Sydney

mind-boggling stuff, yo. :)

few more i just found:
*If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?
*If you paint over a window, is it still a window?
*If I take a photo of a photo of you, am I taking a photo of you or a photo of a photo of you?

do you guys know any?

February 8, 2012 at 6:42 pm #50920
Avatar of Munk
Munk

@sydiarniee I’d argue that since sound is just airwaves (Well, waves, anyway. Doesn’t have to be air!) and doesn’t become interpreted as sound until it hits, say, an ear or a microphone, it doesn’t technically make a sound when a tree falls in the woods and nobody’s there.

February 8, 2012 at 8:53 pm #50991
Avatar of Will
Will

If you paint over a window, it’s a colored window. Unless you use really thick heavy paint, in which case it’s just a sheet of color set set in the wall.

This might not be related to what you’re saying, but didn’t Einstein say that the faster you move, the slower time moves?

February 9, 2012 at 4:46 am #51298
Avatar of Adam Gulyas
Adam Gulyas

Predestination could be true, but the only possible conclusion that doesn’t end in the loss of the will to live is that it isn’t. So the future hasn’t happened yet :P

A lot of theologies believe that good and evil are balanced. There are plot lines where something good has happened so an evil act is set in motion, although I can’t think of where I read that. Christianity says that good has already won.

If you plant dandelions on purpose, are they still a weed?

February 9, 2012 at 1:25 pm #51339
Avatar of QED
QED

I seem to remember number 2 or something similar was in an episode of the Addams family cartoon.

February 9, 2012 at 7:44 pm #51400
Avatar of Henrik
Henrik

If you succeed at failing then you have succeeded. You achieved the result you wanted, regardless of what that result was.

Not sure about the broken down car. But I know there’s a definition for damn near everything traffic related, so with a bit of research it shouldn’t be too hard to figure out.

February 19, 2012 at 4:09 pm #56588
Avatar of Luke Brekke
Luke Brekke

This sentence is false.

February 20, 2012 at 2:52 am #56853
Avatar of Todd
Todd

This off topic: I apologize.

In computer science a thunk is a statement that is passed around in the implementation of a lazy language.

That is all.

Thank you.

February 20, 2012 at 11:11 pm #57166
Avatar of Abreo
Abreo

*If you want to fail and you succeed at failing, have you failed or succeeded?

The answer is you succeeded. You can try to explain your goal in any way you want to but if you achieved it you succeeded even if your goal is to do something poorly. It would only be a failure if it went badly compared to how you wanted it to go.

February 23, 2012 at 5:53 am #58015
Avatar of Cody Stahl
Cody Stahl

The question “Is there more past or more future” is only meaningful if both are considered tangible things. The answer to this question is probably “future” then, because (I believe, correct me if I’m wrong) the most popular current scientific thinking is that the universe had a definite beginning (defined as the point prior to which no events could possibly be causally related to events in this universe) but instead of ending, it will keep expanding for an infinite amount of time. Then we have a finite time span behind us and an infinity of time in front of us, so there is more future.

Then again, if modern scientific thinking is wrong (and any scientist will admit that this area of study has plenty of gaps in knowledge), then either the universe is going to collapse in on itself, or the universe never had a true beginning. In the first case, there is probably still more future in front of us, since the universe is currently in a state of expansion, meaning we’re not yet halfway through our existence as a universe. In the second case, there is an equal amount of time on either side (it becomes equivalent to the question “are there more numbers less than 0 or greater than 0?” which is in turn equivalent to “are there more numbers less than x or greater than x?” for any number x).

Now, if you choose to look at the future as an intangible thing, then there is no way to make a comparison without putting all sorts of parameters on the question. Since the past is a thing that happened and is (supposedly) measurable, the question is equivalent to “are there more ants in the world or thought?” or else, “which is greater, your height or your weight?” Two things that cannot be numerically compared.

Plus considering time as anything other than a definite thing kind of flies in the face of physics as we know it. As alien as it seems to our extremely limited human experience, time and space are closely interwoven. Einstein’s theories of relativity allow for two events to take place in any order, as long as they are not causally connected. So if event A happens on Earth and event B happens on the Sun (about 8 light-minutes away), as long as the events happen within 8 minutes of each other, they can happen in a different order from a different frame of reference (i.e. event A might happen before event B from the frame of reference of a ship traveling from Earth to the Sun while event B happens first from the frame of reference of a ship traveling from the Sun to Earth). So, really, thinking about the future is tricky business, since events that happened in the future of some far off space traveler may have happened in our past, even though we both exist right now at this particular moment in time.

Or maybe I’m overthinking this.

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